FiirkslSF Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Haha, I'll let it keep going, it just seems so redundant at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WedgeHG Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Sorry Lags but I think your logic is flawed. Using bugs is deffinately cheating.??You justify them as being only cheap, and not cheating, by saying that it is "possible." You then say that the stuck-in-hyper bug really is a cheat because that is NOT possible.??I am assuming that by "possible" you mean "feasable in the real world." Correct? That in itself is flawed: it is a game. It is not the real world. The technology does not exist in the real world to build ships that can do what the HW ships do (... well, we probably could build a probe, but that's about it). Maybe someday it will, but maybe not. So it is impossible to judge what is possible and what isn't in the HW universe.??The other problem is that you identify some exploits as being only cheap, while others are actually cheating. An exploit (in this context) is simply making a ship do something that it is not supposed to be able to. Therefore, there is no difference between you making your scouts get all wiggy and me making my MS stay in hyperspace - they are just ships doing something that they aren't supposed to be able to do.??Therefore, if all exploits are the same thing, if one exploit is cheating then all of them must be cheating. The reverse is not true: Allowing all exploits would make the game impossible to finish - both people could just stick their MS's in hyperspace, thus making them unkillable.??But this definition of cheating is a little too ridged. There are some exploits that are practically unanimously accepted as fair. The BBall is most likely an exploit but nobody minds because it is not all-powerful. It has specific advantages for some situations but has distinct disadvangates in other situations. It also requires a great deal of skill to use it effectively so not just anyone can hop on and rape his unsuspecting victim with his new trick. ??So with this in mind, we can modify the definition of cheating to being "using any exploit that is objected to by a significant number of players." And I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that a significant number of players object to HS, ES, fast colls, moving probes more than once, and sticking ships in hyperspace.??????I have already stated my opinion of cheating in responce to cheating. Cheating is cheating no matter who started it and has no place with anone with a shread of self-respect. SF can do as it pleases but HG will not use cheats. Period.????????????????And if you made 6 lefts you would be facing backwards you dolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiirkslSF Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 Lmfao. I don't use these cheats (except for multiprobe moves, that doesnt seem so evil to me, it just seems economical).??Not all of SF does. I feel its unfair to generalize like that. The only SF who claims he does is Lags. And even then hes rather protracted about it.??Lets avoid generalizations.????Multi probe, while violating the game's concept, is not all that evil, it just saves on RU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WedgeHG Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 I wasn't trying to make any generalizations. Just pulling back a little and stating HG's position on bug use. Members of SF, of course, are not subject to our rules - thus my statement that SF can do as it pleases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiirkslSF Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 I see.??HG are quite Honorable and Gaurd thier precepts nicely. ????[/worthless puns] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero|SF Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 You fellows are all crazy, lets face facts, almost everyone uses bugs/exploits or whathaveyou, just use them, hw doesnt have much longer to live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagsy Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 i have seen HG use bugs before maybe not you wedge but i have seen some HG use mine river and cancle kushan death door and on occasion some scout bugs. just not most of em or often but i have seen it from some of them.????and i did not say hyper lock was a cheat or not a cheat i said all bugs are not cheats just use of cheapness but if realy wanted lock in hyper could be achived by screwing up the hyper engine while in hyper.??( and as to none of the tech being buildable you have no idea if else where in the universe other races have some of this technology or more advanced even. ) ??and i was speaking hypothecticly any way.??so throwing sand in a guys eye during a street fight would be cheating then since its not fair altho the other guy could have done it first. a kick in the nuts would also be a cheat then.??bugs are just cheap and low dirty tactics realy cheats are unbeatable things that come from outside that game IE mods and programs to give unlimited RU wich will sync game.??so in all actuality bugs are just dirty tactics some one else thought up and since they are all very simple to use its not like any one is at a disadvantage with them.??and i am not sure who the smurf was but i lost a full very well managed swarm to just 35 scouts in a 2v2 game i pwned all his inters cause i had 25 lights 18 inters and a good 40 scouts going good and all the sudden bam i had 12 scouts 4 itners and 3 lights left and he had a new gruop of scouts and inters coming to his 35 uber leet scouts. altho i did get his bball with a frig scuttle and it tok him a long time to beat me when had full frigs and 2 dessy and i had only 6 assualts and 4 supportshe had half his frigs left and his 2 dessy and 2 new ones by time he won it but no RU cause of his bug killed my reinforcements . it was to late for me to use a scout bug back 12 red scouts aint gonna do s*** to 50 scouts and a dozen or so inters .??and to quote u on something wedge where ur logic is very flawed "using any exploit that is objected to by a significant number of players." ??that would sajust that if a lot of people start to object to salvage vettes mines or swarms or DFF being used agaist them cause they can not yet counter it would make them all declared a bug to use then. but since only 1 person whines of these ( cept for mines lots object to these ) chata is only one who objects to all the rest and mines every game his wall gets pwned.??then if enough object to just about every strat except say strait caps does that mean every one will be required to use only strait caps ???heh you will never win this debate wedge altho the bugs may be hard to counter all of them can be countered.??last time some one hid their MS in hyper i forced them to time out and droped them altho i am not telling how i did that thats a last resort use for sure.??other then hide MS bug every bug has a counter some can be beat with out a bug as well.??so if ur gonna say bugs are cheating in games then u need to post a letter in every news paper and get it on the news that the use of any weapon , kick/hit to the groin throwing of something into some ones eyes or any other cheap method to gain the win is cheating. also use of weapons and bombers an missles and planes in WAR is a cheat. nukes are a cheat threats to use them is a cheat. biological weapons are a cheat.??when HW came out for the first 2 years just about every thing was a cheat it took forever to get people to just deal with losses.??so basicly knowledge and skill = a cheat when simply put ?????? behold the next dolt strat shall use lots of proxies and reps beware ????????EDIT: and what about accediental bugs do to lag lol. like when people fear my massive fleet and team up and focus only on my MS forcing me to stop all builds and hyper it so i can get my carrier out. but my cause of lag my builds wont stop and may or may not keep taking my RU but will build past unit caps lol. had that one change a few 3v3 and 4v4 games for my side but since i cant make this one happen it just does cause i have to be lagging bad wich means i need lots of dolts fighting at my MS or hiting it laging my to hell when i stop my builds and hyper.??also if enough people object to SF using team work will we be baned from using it in our 3v3 and 4v4 games ? cause it will be a bug then ??the true definition of a bug is mearly a flaw in the game engine that alows u to make your ships/character/car/ect... do things it normaly could not via the games programed peramiters doesnt mean those abilities u have aquired are implauseable completely. its a matter of perspective.??people always asume what has owned them was unfair to them so it may have been a cheat just some are more respectfull to not just outright say " YOU CHEATER " they do a little research to make sure they are right that it was a bug ( or cheat as some call it ) before they accuse. guys like chatanga and newbs who have no clue about skill yet just say you fecking cheater. and be done with you lol.??skill game knowledge bugs and cheats are all a simple perception of those that it has decimated. and if a uber skilled tactics or strat has owned enough people who are to lazy to learn it or just plane dont want to learn why not make it considered a bug/cheat then.??so by your thought wedge almost every thing would be a bug in HW and every game ;| if it was decided by majority that its a bug wow thats deep (lol not realy but you know ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviathon Posted April 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 holy cow didnt think this topic would get this many replies!@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagsy Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 it turned into a debate on bugs levi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WedgeHG Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 You couldn't have misunderstood my post more completely. Please go back and reread it.??and as to none of the tech being buildable you have no idea if else where in the universe other races have some of this technology or more advanced even.??Exactly, we have no idea. Therefore arguing the plausibility of ships' abilities in a sci-fi game is silly.????so throwing sand in a guys eye during a street fight would be cheating then since its not fair altho the other guy could have done it first. a kick in the nuts would also be a cheat then.??Excellent example. Would you see sand throwing and nut kicking in a karate tournament, boxing match, or wrestling match? No. The offender would be thrown out. (and no, the WWF is not wrestling ) I would like to hope that the HW community is a above the level of some punk on the street - especially members of respected clans.????what about accediental bugs do to lag lol[?]??Accidents will happen. Nothing you can do about it really. It's nobody's fault. The most common accidental bug is the mine river. Happens all the time, though usually only 1 or 2 miners. I've never run into your build bug. What I have seen is where you get some lag and start a build during it. It will show progress being made but it will not count the RUs against you. ... the catch is that when the ship is completed it never pops out lol. But it does count against your unit cap. I have lost a couple games because of that one lol. Once because I thought everything was fine... but no reinforcements were comming out of my MS. By the time I realized that something was screwed up I was toast. And another time my carrier got stuck this way. It finished but never came out. And it was a 4v4 so the unit cap is 1 so I couldn't build another Got killed because of it (my team still won though ).????and to quote u on something wedge where ur logic is very flawed "using any exploit that is objected to by a significant number of players." You took that out of context. Read it again. You are trying to make it sound like I said "an exploit is anything that is objected to by a significant number of players." That is not what I ment at all. ...we can modify the definition of cheating to being "using any exploit that is objected to by a significant number of players."THAT is what I said. Basically: cheating = using an exploit + people objecting to it. ??... and that basically deflates everything you said in the rest of your post.??One more thing to add though:??that would sajust that if a lot of people start to object to salvage vettes mines or swarms or DFF being used agaist them cause they can not yet counter it would make them all declared a bug to use then.then if enough object to just about every strat except say strait caps does that mean every one will be required to use only strait caps ?also if enough people object to SF using team work will we be baned from using it in our 3v3 and 4v4 games ? cause it will be a bug then ??The difference between all those and ES and HS is this: in ES and HS the ships are doing something that they aren't supposed to be able to do. With salvage vetts, mines, swarms, dff, teamwork, etc., those ships are doing exactly what they are supposed to be able to do. Thus they are not an exploit and not cheating. Besides, I already explained how you totally misrepresented what I said to twist it to that meaning in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagsy Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 lol nonthing you said makes sense realy ??but i will let you feel good about your nonsense ???? Would you see sand throwing and nut kicking in a karate tournament, boxing match, or wrestling match? No. The offender would be thrown out. (and no, the WWF is not wrestling ) I would like to hope that the HW community is a above the level of some punk on the street - especially members of respected clans.??as for that HW isnt a respectable tournament its WAR and as they say all is fair in love and war.??like i said before if some one bugs me i will bug back period ??u can play nice all you want but if some plays dirty i play dirty back. we are not building a real society in space and a galatic empire here so its not like some ones losing any sleep over losing to a bug when they buged first .?? * cept maybe ahab lol * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 i am too lazy to read all that crap.yes as a counter to people using scouts bugs on me i use bugs back bull s*** there??my definitions:cancel on caps coming out of ms is an exploit. either it is kushan or taiidan. it really doesnt matter what race cause the function is still the same.f2 f4zzz (changning my mind) is an exploit.es of swithching formations is an exploit??hs of kami zzz......i dont konw about that i do not think it is an exploit for the reason that it is the simple function of chasing other ships to commit suicide...i use it when i want to and it really isnt a great benefit for the reason my retarded scouts run into eachother. kami zzzisnt an exploit.????is there anything else ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagsy Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 cancel on ships coming out is used by a majority faclon and its actualy useless tho unless its a gravity well generator to turn it on so wall is graved sooner and cant attack it as it comes out. rest of ships fall out realy gay behind MS and act dumb when i saw others use it on their dessys in game i did it on my 2nd one it sat behind MS failed to add to my cap group and accept attack orders so i dont bother with it no more.??its more hassle then help imo. so its a useless bug realy cept for gravs.??and i never bug first falcon so stfu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 hey i didnt say you would start it...well thatis what you said in thequote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagsy Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 no u either red it wrong or edited it.??i said i will use them back dolt not use them first. read better ??you bug me i will bug back with the counter period. but i will not go out of my way to one up the bug use i will just counter what they did and not bug again unless they do first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 rofl can you read?i said you wouldnt start it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagsy Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 i am too lazy to read all that crap.yes as a counter to people using scouts bugs on me i use bugs back bull s*** thererofl can you read?i said you wouldnt start it.9230[/snapback]????hrrrm forgeting what you said ? ??tis ok we still lubs ya facly walcy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 i was saying bs when you decide to use bugs back....i guess that is what you are misunderstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagsy Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 all is fair in love and war deal with it ????u cheat me i will rebalance the game with a bug as well its only fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DP]Ghent96 Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Everything dealing with fast formation switching is an exploit, and not intended by the game engine.??I've dug through every HW file there is, in doing mods for the game. Even the battleball is questionable, but there IS a distinct, purposefully programmed modifier, that causes the Battleball attack to happen.??With all the ES, DS, SS, KS, HS, ...FS whatever It's not programmed in the game engine, it's an exploit, and unintended.??Scouts and other strikecraft move smoothly, flying & attacking. If you ever see jerky movements, 90-degree turns, and twitching on an enemy scout, then they're cheating. Not even lag causes that. Trust me on this.??Anyone cheats on me, I don't bother wasting my time cheating back to win against them. I just move my MS close and do a quick little S, S action to end the game, spit in their face, and find a real opponent.??There's a LOT of n00bs out there on WON now, many don't know good from bad, or wrong from right. Us oldies need to educate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagsy Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 i just think its more fun to out bug them and humiliate them at their own game ??survival of the fitest ( or dirtiest in this case lol )???? ????ever seen a 35 collector swarm moving like scouts ;P its preaty funny lol then tell colls to kami their MS game over alltho only in a newbs no unit cap inject game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiirkslSF Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Ok, don't start flaming.??It takes 24 colls to kill a mothership, 11 to kill a carrier. Just an FYI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagsy Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 its 32 colls actualy and only 8-9 for a carrier i won a game not to long ago using coll kami in a unit cap off inject newbie game. after i was down to 1 coll from the 32 coll kami last coll hit and MS died and coll died. and nothing was attacking his MS or supporting it eitehr.but its best to add a few more for a sure bet. i havehad MS's live after 31 coll kami even a 33 coll kami cause his bball weakened number of them enough with dock reguard to change coll target.??and theres no flaming mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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